• General
  • Request for Comment - KLIMA X MOSS collaboration

Excellent - 100% in favor! This will be a win-win for the entire community, climate and natural ecosystems we're all fighting to protect.

Immediate thoughts after reading this:

  • they have amassed 3mn credits already, likely backed by these investment funds that they've shown. The VERs have not been retired and are held in custody in an SPV I assume. This means the double spending risk remains >0%. Do they get retired after a token has been retired by an end customer?
  • REDD+ have historically seen very large issuance and avg prices between $4-$4.5 between 2019-2021
  • On one hand, this is better quality than some of the stuff within BCT, on the other, REDD forestry in LatAm has had some issues with verification (one example in Peru - https://www.foodwatch.org/fileadmin/-DE/Themen/Windbeutel/Bilder/2021/Dokumente/foodwatch2021_Tambopata-offset-project_Assessment.pdf). There should be more scrutiny not only at the level of specific methodologies, but also validators and already verified credits.
  • I don't know what projects MOSS has, but we certainly don't want another HFC-type problem. Not taking in low quality large issuance credits actually restricts supply and causes the price of the proper ones to go up a lot more.
  • In Toucan's case, they don't profit from the price of BCTs. MOSS and their investors do profit from Klima's new demand. So the question is - does Klima need them more than they need Klima?
  • They are in a way acting both as an arb player, a tokenization protocol and wholesale/retail seller and keep all the margin. Imo, Klima's ultimate goal is precisely to cut out the middlemen and their margin even if I understang that this won't happen overnight.
  • Their audit report is not a company audit report on moss, rather a check and match between the Verra and Ethereum.
  • Back to incentives, I get why they want to sell their stuff to Klima's users. What is Klima getting in return then? $30k plus bonding 15k of their tokens = ~$150k is all good, but is it worth the same for the DAO? Would they push their own clients and partners to actually bond their token and use Klima? Then it would make more sense.

I'm generally in favor. I'd like to see how Sirob's questions are addressed.

After reading this, yes! Was hesitant at first but I like this for the overall trajectory of both projects

Unfortunately the proposal doesn't have an actual informal poll. But I vote in favor of MCO2 reserve bonds but not liquidity bonds. I think POL should concentrate on building the BCT-KLIMA and BCT-USDC based liquidity as it is right now. It is too early to start fracturing POL.

IMHO it's not a matter who needs who, it's a matter of creating a new economy where we create value from things that protect and preserve earth. Why we choose to mine gold to create value. Our margins are only valid once, we observe several times where the opportunity to buy carbon credits is better on chain than off chain and it's open to anyone, now try to buy credits from traditional projects. It is not transparent like that. Lastly, we are working in a transparent and secure way to decentralize more.

    All Vcus held by Moss and tokenized (thus all MCO2s) are retired at Verra and Armanino has audited this. The company has been audited by EY. So the risk of double spending is zero indeed (and audited as such)

    REDD+ is the most prolific source of voluntary carbon credits (50% of all issuances for 2019-20) and thus there will be more examples of wrongdoing and bad apples. Statistically, though, percentage wise, bad apples are negligible. And the future of the global voluntary market lies on REDD+ : McKinsey estimates that 65% to 85% of future global volumes will come from NBS (thus, from REDD+). And, tech wise, REDD+ projects are the easiest to measure via cold data and satellite imaging. Past "bad apples" happened mostly in a time when imaging was expensive and a lot less accessible than nowadays.

    Although Moss' initial positioning has been of acting as an intermediary, the company is beginning to develop its own projects and generation using technology, thus migrating slowly away from the middleman position you mention

    Finally, the MCO2 token is listed at the main global exchanges, including Gemini and Coinbase. Thus, the MCO2 would bring Klima the validation of association with a company and project that have gone through the most rigorous due diligence processes out there, and bring the existing high liquidity of current exchanges that offer MCO2

      For: Introduce KLIMA-MCO2 and MCO2 bonds

      It's what makes the most sense! Happy to see this

      Moss
      Thank you for the further info. Your audit report does not mention that you have retired the VERs, only that you have bought them. Could you please point me to the text which clarifies that statement?

      New verification tech will certainly help, but in your last project listed above (Madre Dios), you use the same validator that has apparently done a pretty crappy job in the Peruvian Madre Dios project. What steps have you taken to ensure the baseline and subsequent verification have been done properly?

      It is good that you are getting into the PD space, but until that happens, bonding on Klima is indeed a one-way positive arb for you.

      I struggle to understand the real benefit of the CB/Gemini listing of MCO2 for Klima. BCT is only traded in the Liq Pools and the DAO accumulates the fees, which is beneficial. MCO2 trading on CB does not help the DAO fees-wise, it helps CB. I agree that it will potentially channel more people into bonding and staking Klima, but they rather do it in the DAO owned pool for max benefit.

      Klima's most valuable proposition over time is the intrinsic value. Would you agree to stimulate demand for Klima among your end clients as an alternative to selling MCO2 directly to them?

      Thank you

        yes pls. me like KLIMA-MCO2 and MCO2 bonds

        I would like to see MCO2- BCT bond! If that goes well maby more bonds cold be developed. Just want be cautious about new assets that is backing klimas treasure. Good proposal! My vote is neutral for now.

        If these 2 can collab, it would be one of the best idea for csrbon off sets.

        I have read the Moss website and the whitepaper and I am a little bit confused as to the specifics of how you guys tokenize your carbon credits. Are they not retired as soon as they are brought on chain?